Monday, October 22, 2012

451 136-end Period 5

136 comments:

  1. Why do you think the world just now managed to attack the unsuspecting country of America?

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    1. How do you know that it hadn't been attacked before? The people in this society don't like talking about funerals, so it's not like they'd talk about cities being destroyed, either.

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    2. I think that other parts of the world attacked America now was because they finally saw a breaking point in the system. With everything that happened that night with Montag's house, Beatty's murder, Montag planting the books, and the great chase to find Montag; other countries saw a chance to catch people off guard.

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    3. I think the world has probably been preparing. Obviously, by the way that the United States government is able to convince people, even the rebels to follow their rule: to become lazy human beings. The world probably was preparing then as time progressed it showed that America's society was increasingly getting worse and foreign forces had to come in.

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  2. Why didn't America take any precautionary measures against nuclear attacks on civilian cities when they are involved in nuclear wars every other week?

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    1. America thought that they were untouchable because they were so superior to other nations.

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    2. I don't think government ever thought that people would ever think strongly enough about something to rise against them

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    3. I am not sure. I was surprised that America, which tries to be apart from the world in this book, has so many disputes with countries outside of them. I was wondering why the war was treated as such an afterthought. I believe that it is because so many wars are occurring that people do not react. Is that why there are so many wars? So people can stop being scared/the become numb of the fact of war?

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    4. The fact that they are warring, and not just sitting back and watching the nuclear attacks happen is evidence that they have done something. Just because this one city was destroyed doesn't mean that America hasn't done any precautionary measures. Also, it seems that the war is more offensive than defensive.

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    5. I don't think that America took and precautionary measures against nuclear attacks because we were always the ones to attack other places in the world, and we would always end the war before other places had a chance to fight. In other words I think that America felt that they were so far advanced and superior to other countries that they didn't think anyone would even try to attack them.

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    6. I don't think that they thought anyone would think about attacking them. Also I think that the U.S. was not actually in those wars, I believe they said that so the people would stay calm.

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  3. Why do you think Ray Bradbury ended the book the way he did? How was this significant?

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    1. It gives the reader a chance to make what they want of it. It was kind of an open ended ending, so it is now up to the reader to use their imagination and predict what will happen from here.

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    2. I feel like Bradbury ended the book with "Morning, when we reach the city" Because it shows that Montag, after all the stress he has been under the entire book, is finally free, and can read his books in peace. Its a happy ending.

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    3. I think Bradbury ended the book on a cliffhangar- but the good kind, where the reader has their fill (they got a good story) but they don't know what will happen next. He probably did this so we could make up our minds about what would happen next. LADY AND THE TIGER!

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    4. It's going along with the idea of the phoenix. Nothing can get better until it all falls apart. Well, the city was just destroyed, so this is a new beginning.

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    5. I think Bradbury ended the book like that because he wanted to show a new and improved era coming for that city. The city got completely wiped out after it got hit with the nuclear bomb, and I think Bradbury wanted to show that a better life is coming with the help of Montag and his new friends.

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    6. It's showing a new dawn. Morning is associated with good feelings, with a new start. Morning is the start of a new day with new opportunities. Bradbury is foreshadowing coming change and giving a feeling of hope. Like Scott said, it is a happy ending.

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    7. I think that Ray Bradbury ended the book this way to start something new. After all the bombs going off in the city, I feel like it shows that this time has a chance to start over, and a chance for Montag and the other men to make literature part of America again.

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  4. What do you think happened to Faber? Do you think Montag will ever reconnect with Faber?

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    1. I think that they will reconnect. The hound passed by Faber and Montag successfully outran the government. All they have to do now is make it to their rendezvous point.

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    2. Faber gave Montag a place for them to meet up, and was on his way when the nuclear attack happened. I would assume he is still alive, especially because Bradbury mentioned his travel. I think that not only will Montag meet up with him, but he will join the men Montag has joined.

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    3. I believe that Faber and Montag have gone their seperate ways. Bradbury I think used Faber in a similar way to Clarisse, Faber was there when Montag needed him to escape the city, but now Montag needs to go learn on his own, without Faber's help.

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    4. I don't think so. Just like how Clarisse was just a spark to start his thoughts, so was Faber. I think Bradbury will want Montag to continue on by himself without Faber

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    5. I think that Faber was on his bus, an he made it to St. Louis. I also think that he will meet up with Montag and the other men to help bring the world back into literature.

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  5. How has Montag's personality changed over the course of the story? What specific events could have lead to this change?

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    1. Montag has completely changed! The first time we meet him, he is full of joy as he burns books. On the last page, his whole life has been destroyed, but he is feeling hopeful and excited about his newfound love for books.

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    2. Montag's personality is now more of his own (if that makes sense). He thinks for himself and and has started to form his own opinions, and now he challenges the government when he used to support it. There were many events that led up to this change. One example is when the lady stayed in her home with the books when her house was being burned to the ground. Another one is how he had been collecting books for a long time, and eventually started reading them. Clarisse also had a big impact on him, she showed him that he was unhappy and that he wasn't in love with his wife. She showed him that he wasn't getting what he could out of life, and he wanted to change that.

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    3. At the start of the story Montag was just another fireman. Until Clarrise came along he didn't question the government. Then came the event where the woman killed herself for her books. I think that told him that there was something in literature worth dying for. And after finding Granger he realized that he was important because he had the knowledge of Ecclesiastes. He went from being just another brainwashed person to someone who no longer accepted things as they were given to him.

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    4. Montag's personality didn't so much as change as it developed. He started off as a drone and through the course of the story he became a rebel. The events that led to this was the meeting of Clarisse, him reading books, and him killing Beatty.

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  6. How do you think the literature in the book motivates social change in the book?

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    1. The literature, especially the Bible, encourages Montag to truly change himself and look at what he is doing. He began to realize how many people were killed because of him, and began to go to Faber so he could understand the information presented to him. The literature Montag reads encourages Montag to change himself for the better before changing society.

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  7. Do you think that society will change as a result of the toll that the war has caused? If so, how much of a driving force will the people who have been memorizing books be on that change?

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    1. I think after the war, society will realize they need to be educated with the world, making books crucial to be able to prevent another attack on America.

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    2. I think that society will definitely change because of the nuclear war. So many people were killed, so they kind of have to rebuild the society. It is up to the survivors on how they want to build it, and depending who they are, they will either have literature once again or continue their previous ways. It gives them a chance, though, and if Montag and the others want to bring books back, then they finally have the opportunity to.

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    3. I don't think that society will change immediately. They are too set in their ways to change quickly.

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    4. Yes, I think the city will change. The people will realize that they know nothing about what was going on outside of their protective bubble. The people who have been memorizing books will slowly help show and teach the civilians what they have been missing from not reading the books. Though it may be overwhelming at first, I think the society needs to be informed of all that they have missed.

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    5. I think that the war will impact society a great deal, because everyone is so used to winning wars, and never being effected. So now that the war is on the home front, everyone will be changed forever. yet I don't know if people will be motivated to memorize books right away, I feel like everyone is still stuck on their old ways that they won't change right away.

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  8. What do you think Montag did after the book ended with his new found friends?

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    1. I think Montag joined them and is planning on continuing life like they do, storing books away in their heads.

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    2. I think that they will stay together and that he will soon be considered as "one of them".

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    3. I agree with Riley, but I also think that Montag will not be happy enough with that and he might try to do little things to save books.

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    4. I think that he will stay with them and they will go the city to try to help people, and then they will slowly bring literature into peoples lives.

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  9. What is the meaning of how Clarrise and Montag met?

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    1. I think it shows the simplicity of it all and how "odd" Clarisse is. She just begins to talk to a complete stranger, yet to that stranger she became the meaning for his curiosity and when she died, he felt in her memory to have her live on through books. It's like in kindergarten. To become friends, all you have to do is ask. Yet sometimes, those people mean the world to you. As life takes charge, it becomes harder and harder not to see the bad in people.

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    2. It is almost a foreshadow of how Montag met the others near the train tracks. He was walking alone at night when he met Clarisse, and he was also walking alone at night when he met his new friends. End as they began, almost (although the end of this book really is the beginning...?)

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  10. When there is the moment where Montag thinks of Mildred getting bombed, it seems he really did love her. Why is this important--that he is just now realizing his emotion towards her? Did Mildred ever feel the same way?

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    1. I don't think it is showing that he truly loves her. He is continuing his realization that he really DOESN'T love her. He is thinking about it, but he isn't sad. Through thinking about her, he is showing himself an example of the society which is about to be destroyed.

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    2. Montag became more knowledgeable and aware because he read books. He had always kind of cared for her, but I'm still not sure he really loved her. His thoughts at the end might have just been showing how Guy Montag was realizing that his life would never be the same, and he would never have those previous norms like his wife and his job.

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    3. Its hard to tell if Mildred truly loved Guy, but I believe at one point, she did. I don't believe she was always as addicted to T.v. as she is now, or else why would Montag marry her? Present day marriages are like this as well. They need a traumatic experience to rekindle their marriage, and I believe the bombing was the spark that forced Guy to come to the conclusion that he really did love Mildred.

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    4. I think that Montag really didn't know what love was, or how it felt to be loved. After he started reading the books, his eyes and ears were opened. Like everyone else, I don't think that he loved her, but I do think that he did care for her. I think that this is proof to the lesson in life I'm sure we have all heard: you don't know what you got until its gone.

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    5. I don't think that Mildred loved Montag, and I also think that Montag didn't love Mildred, but Montag did feel responsible for her, like he had to protect her somehow

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  11. "And on either side of the river was there a tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month; And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."
    How do you think this quote from the Book of Ecclesiastes is significant and relevant to the book?

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    1. I think that the tree represents the good people in the book- who are giving literature (or the fruit) to the nations in order to heal them.

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    2. I think the tree is also a symbol, it shows that the fruit dies, but it always comes back. Their society is currently "dead" but they still have the possibility of regrouping and bearing "fruit' again.

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    3. I think that this quote from the Book of Ecclesiastes is significant to the book because I almost feel like it could relate to literature. I took the tree as literature, fruits as the ever growing collection of books, and the leaves are the impact that books have on all of us.

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  12. Why do you think Bradbury left the reader to make up their own mind in so many places in the book (as in the end, where we don't know what will happen next, or about Beatty, where we don't know who he really is)?

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    1. That is the point of literature, it gives you a good story, but it encourages you to think for yourself and use your imagination. This is what the society in the story is missing, not only books, but the ability to put your own personal spin on your literature.

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    2. I think that he thought that if he did it this way, the last word wouldn't be the end of the book for us, that we would think of it again and again. Same with the other places in the book, he wanted us to be involved in the story and not just a bystander.

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    3. With Beatty, he was trying to keep the reader hooked. You can't just put down the book without knowing if Beatty is friend or foe. He left the ending more open ended because it is more powerful. It creates a different feeling in the reader.

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    4. I think it was to show how much of life is unknown and how we don't always know if we can trust someone or not or where they stand on an issue

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    5. It causes deep thought and helps the reader rethink the story and review what in the story would make the ending one or the other.

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    6. Bradbury may have been forcing the reader to make inferences about the characters and situations based on what they know. Exploring deeper into the book helps readers to get more from what they read than if all the answers were just strait-forward.

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  13. What kind of a role did the Bible play in this story?

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    1. The bible has been a very important book for generations. It is one of the most priceless books of them all, so it makes sense that Montag would learn some of this book, of all the books in the world.

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    2. There were several quotes from the Bible in the story, and Bradbury also actually mentions the Bible. When Montag has the Bible, it represents the shred of hope that he has.

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    3. It is less of a religious influence, but more of a moral and philosophic influence, especially on Montag.

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    4. The Bible seemed to be more of Montag's purpose to change, purpose to understand books. It was due to the Bible, because of the huge praise of it in the past (if the facts of the time are true), that Montag went to Faber. The Bible was the perfect piece of literature to encourage Montag into the world.

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    5. The Bible was pretty much obsolete in their society. It created conflict, so like Beatty said, "Burn it." It was a symbol of where our society is going today. Religion is becoming less important and equality is becoming more important. Whether this is good or bad is irrelevant, it's just something that Bradbury sees is bound to happen.

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    6. The Bible is one of the most important books in society today, I feel that it shows how much society has degraded that they don't even have respect for the Bible or whats in the Bible

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  14. Why do you think fire is such a prominent motif in the story?

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    1. It represents power and how when people control power they can manipulate and take over a whole generation. Fire can destroy everything and so can a single leader or law.

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    2. Fire is seen as both a bad and a good thing in this story, which is interesting. It makes sense,though. Fire is bittersweet, in a way. Bad things happen so that good can come out of it.

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    3. Fire destroys every thing in its path, but it also is very cleansing and almost like a clean slate, a fresh start.

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    4. It stands for cleansing, and in this society everyone is at their rawest form. Stupid, easy to manipulate, like cattle. It relates to the state of the people in the book and the potential danger of fire.

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  15. How is the Phoenix, a creature of fire, significant?

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    1. It represents Granger's hope for the future. After the city has been destroyed, there is a chance it will be reborn, but this time for the better.

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    2. A phoenix is a creature that is reborn from the ashes of fire. When the city was destroyed, it's symbolizing how the society/country can be "reborn" for the better. It symbolizes hope for the society.

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    3. The Phoenix rises from its ashes every time it dies. Someone in the story compared this creature to mankind, and how we keep rising from the ashes and how someday we might stop this- and maybe never die (figuratively). The Phoenix is man, and Montag and his friends are hoping that the people of the city will rise from the ashes of their fallen city and never die again.

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    4. The idea is that the city, and eventually the whole world, will have to burn down before it gets better. The city has been bombed, so now that it can get better. The society has been so poisoned, so to speak, that they only way to get that away is to flush out everything. To burn everything. Then it can be reborn, like a phoenix.

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  16. How did this book connect to the short stories we read beforehand (The Pedestrian and Harrison Bergeron)?

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    1. They are all very technology based.

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    2. Harrison Bergeron is also a story about a failed Utopia. The Pedestrian shows someone different being alienated. Also, when the random man who happens to go for walks was killed by the hound, I thought of The Pedestrian. While the pedestrian gets arrested, someone like him (goes for walks, is abnormal because of it) is killed.

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    3. All the books are warnings about going the wrong way with technology, and also what could happen if everyone gets lazy. Also, it shows how much ideas can affect people and society, like in Harrison Bergeron when the idea of equality turned into handicaps for normal, gifted people.

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    4. They all show us what society can become, and how powerful the government can become. In all of the stories, the government has tried in some shape or form to regulate society/censor it/make everyone equal.

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    5. They show the slow but sure digression of society, and they are all warnings about how if we're not careful we might end up like them

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  17. How did this book encourage/change you personally? What aspects of the book really stood out to you?

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    1. The passion that Bradbury had for writing and about the book is what really stood out to me. He worried so strongly about our society's destination that he delved into producing a warning. He wrote and published a book in hopes of veering our society off of the course it was/is on.

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    2. The book encouraged me to think more for myself. It didn't really change my personality, but it definitely has made me think more. Whenever I sit down to watch TV, I start thinking about Mildred and her friends and how corrupt their minds were. I try not to believe everything I read, and I'm becoming more involved with politics so that I know what's going on with society and the government.

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    3. The aspect of Clarisse stood out to me. She was an "ordinary" girl that started something that I don't think she could have imagined. It the same thing as a spark starts a fire or a seed starts a tree. Each one of us can change the world (small or large scale) and all we need to do is realize that that is the truth and go and start something. You don't know, any day you could say something to someone, and that could start a new life inside of them. It really makes you think about what you say to people, and how you think.

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    4. It made me really appreciate my life. There was a part in the reading where Granger kept saying to do something worth remembering in your life before you die. Make people remember you. I would not want to be remembered for being lazy and sitting on my couch all day watching television.

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    5. For me personally aspects of the book that really stood out was the crumbling society. Everything was so different from what it is now, and not in good ways. This book made me think that no matter what I have to make sure that literature is a huge part in my life, because I never want to feel like Montag and Mildred did when they opened a book for the first time. Uncomprehending and utterly stupid.

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    6. Like Rebecca, Clarisse influenced me. She didn't like what was accepted as the norm, she asked questions and always wanted to think more of life around her.

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  18. How was the war important to the events in the book?

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    1. It's showing the society and how it really isn't ideal. This society isn't perfect, even though that's what people want to believe and are told to believe.

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    2. The war gave the readers a chance to bring books back to society.

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    3. It basically gave the society a chance to be 'reborn' in a sense. One door closes, another opens. They now have a chance to build it how they want it, and now they can learn their lesson from the last failed society. Hopefully this will help them shape the government. It probably won't be perfect- society never can be- but that doesn't mean they can't try to make it better.

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    4. Like Emily, I think that it gave the chance for society to start over on a clean slate.

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  19. How do you think Granger will change Montag in the weeks to come?

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    1. I think he will continue to expose Montag to the joys of books and learning. Taking on a role similar to Faber's. Like a mentor.

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    2. Montag is already changed. Granger can tell Montag about more books and what is in them, but beyond that Montag and Granger have the same goal.

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    3. I think Granger kind of shows personality of the author. He has such incredible wisdom, wonderful lectures about how society has crumbled. Due to him already trying to make change, yet seeing the trueness of it all the fact that they are considered "unimportant" to society. His wisdom, his honesty to Montag will show Montag that there is nothing wrong with changing yourself before you are capable of changing society.

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    4. I think that Granger will teach Montag to be one with literature, and to prize it no matter what happens. I also think that Granger will teach Montag how to read literature and never forget it.

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  20. Do you think that our society is beginning to ignore and hate books like the society in F451? Why are we doing this?

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    1. Its clear that the majority of our generation would rather watch a movie then read a book, merely because its the easier thing to do, all due to laziness.

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    2. That does happen sometimes. But not everyone dislikes books. We do this for the same reasons that are in Fahrenheit 451; people don't like to be offended. Minorities can find something offensive in nearly every piece of literature.

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    3. I think this may be happening. Instead of going outside, people stay inside and watch TV or surf the Internet. Instead of spending time with their families, people spend hours with their eyes glued to their screens. People don't want to read or don't try to read because it's so much better to watch their favorite shows.

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    4. I don't think we are beginning to hate books, but the style of books we have today are of a much different quality. If we were to read all the novels from the 1800's, they are so poetic and beautiful. They have morals and symbols and lessons. However, if you were to pick up a novel today, they are focused on greed and self appreciation. We have dumbed down what we are reading.

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    5. I don't think that people are ignoring or hating literature like in the book. However, we are headed in that direction. Literature is becoming shorter, more dumbed down. People care less and less about the quality of the things they are reading. Also, we are moving to digital books. Eventually, real, touchable books will be obsolete. People also care less and less about their literacy, just like in the book.

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    6. While I don't think this generation is beginning to hate literature I do think that the generation is to technology based. We are beginning to rely more on the web and text rather than whats on the paper. Its happening because the world is becoming more knowledgeable about these new ideas.

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    7. I don't think we are hating books at all, I mean we even had technology like the Nook, Kindle created for reading books (of course there are apps, internet to keep the mind "busy"). However I do feel that the people in this society are preferring and leaning towards the lazy option: to let your brain be distracted and turn to goop while you are watching TV. Books are considered time consuming, but also a lot of people, due to F451, see the lovely world and how much they adore books.

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    8. I don't think we as a society are starting to ignore or hate literature but I think the quality of our literature is defiantly degrading. In a relatively short amount of time we have gone from Shakespeare to "The life of Justin Beiber".

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  21. Do you think that Man will realize he has been burning himself over and over, and unlike the Phoenix, change?

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    1. No. I think that we realize that we are doing it but really don't have the motivation to change or any idea of what we would change to.

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    2. Yes, we have adapted from a lesser intelligence level than the people in the story. I think that they will change and adapt.

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  22. Why do you think Montag suddenly remembered where he and Mildred met? Was he worried and panicked and that triggered a memory?

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    1. I think it just shows how he had changed. At the beginning, he didn't even care about it. Likewise he didn't care about books. Then when he started caring about books, he wanted to know where he met Mildred. Then, after really starting to understand literature, he suddenly remembers where he met Mildred.

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    2. He had also developed a new way of thinking. He has become better at retaining information and being able to unlock different parts of his brain. This unleashed his memories

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  23. Historically, people have waited for catastrophe to change their ways- this is probably what is going to happen in the book, too. (other examples: Columbine, Titanic, 9-11, etc.) Why does this attitude apply to the human race and what makes it significant to the book?

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    1. Catastrophe is a catalyst for change. No one waits to change until catastrophe - they don't want to change until catastrophe strikes. The people that truly care, that are truly passionate about change, are the ones that act before it's too late.

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    2. We can't see our problems sometimes unless we are forced to humility. All of those examples are when humans were humbled. Sometimes we NEED to have these humbling experiences in order to see that we need change. Opposition is necessary for understanding.

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    3. When the city was destroyed, there were still people left, who knew what the past society was like, and what needed to be fixed. I think maybe humans wait for catastrophes to happen before change because maybe they don't realize how bad the direction their society is heading until it's too late, and the problem is too big to fix.

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    4. It applies to the human race because of the examples you gave and others just like them. People don't realize what is happening/how corrupt our world is until some main event happens. It makes it significant to the book because the people in Montag's city/society are just like that, yet now that the "huge catastrophe" has happened, I think that it will open their eyes.

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    5. It takes a lot to open a societies eyes. Before 9-11, we weren't even thinking about having such intense airport security because it was never needed. Not having security wasn't even on our minds. This attitude applies to the human race because that's how humans were made. We can't predict the future, so we can't change something that we don't know needs changing. We don't fix it if it's not broken. In the book, the people didn't realize their society was so corrupt. It took a major catastrophe in order to show them that something needed to be fixed.

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  24. Overall what do you think is the moral of this story?

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  25. What character most represents the point that the author is trying to get across to us?

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  26. How do you think Montag will look back on this city? Would it be a good or bad memory?

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    1. It wasn't a good city. This society isn't really a happy one for those who actually think. I highly doubt he will think fondly of it and wish it was still standing. He will think of it as the life he had before, but that life burned with the city.

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    2. It will be a memory that is detached from emotion. He will simply remember it as a starting point. He'll think of it as the place/time that everything started.

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  27. Which short story or book that we have read do you feel most parallels the plot of this book?

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    1. Lord of the Flies and The Pedestrian shared the same general plot idea as Fahrenheit 451. In Lord of the Flies people followed the government or Jack because he was the strongest and everyone was scared of him. It shows how much the government was in control.

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    2. I think Harrison Burrigion (or however you spell it.)This is because there is an uprising in the distopian society, with an uprising against the government, with high chances society will go back to normal.

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  28. Is our society headed to the point where the media will do anything to get a story, like in the book? (The innocent man is killed by the hound)

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  30. The government posed an innocent person as Montag and it wasn't. This means that the Hound has . failed before. How many "criminals" are roaming their society? What do you think they do once they realize they are free?

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