Friday, October 12, 2012

451 69-91 Period 5

196 comments:

  1. What does Denham's Dentrifice mean? What is it from?

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    1. It's from the radio ad that was playing on the subway.

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    2. Denham's Dentrifice is a dental product, which was being advertised through a song on the "train" Montag was riding.

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    3. When Montag was trying to read from the bible, it kept playing and interrupting him.

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    4. I think it represents the mindless nature of society. It doesn't really mean anything; it's just an ad. Society is full of these things that have little meaning, and Montag is struggling to focus on reading the bible while having to face annoying distracting things such as Denham's Dentrifice.

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    5. I think it's just a commercial. But when Montag was trying to read, everyone around him was still saying mindless things, which frustrated him. The commercial represents the mindless pleasures of the people, since they were singing along and everything.

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  2. What is the importance of the title of this section (Sieve and the Sand)?

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    1. The title refers to a memory from Montag's childhood. The memory is of Guy at the beach where a cousin of his ttold him to fill a sieve with sand and he'd get a nickel. But, because the sieve lets the sand fall through, it becomes impossible.

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    2. Well, the part we just read talked about Montag, when he was younger, at the beach trying t keep the sand he's gathering on the beach in a sieve. In this section, they compare the information the books are giving him to the sand, and he wants them to stay, he wants to understand what they mean, and why they were written, and not just slip through his brain like the sieve did in the sand.

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    3. Bradbury and Montag directly associate it with trying to memorize the book and the knowledge not sinking in but it also shows how that society exists. They fill their minds with useless facts and anything they think they care about simply slips away.

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    4. The sieve separates, it distinguishes difference, and I think that this might be refering to society.

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  3. Why do you thing Faber talks about how much of a coward he is so much?

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    1. I think he is just disappointed himself. He hasn't done much to stop what society has done, and he regrets it. He doesn't want Montag to make the same mistakes he did.

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    2. I think he is trying to warn Montag of what he could become.

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    3. I think he mentions it so much because he does not want to be included in the adventures of Montag. He keeps saying it because he is hoping that Montag will move in and not want him anymore, then he can go back to his old way of living.

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    4. He is disappointed and angry at himself for not standing up against the burning of books while there still was a chance for rebellion.

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    5. Faber is just reflecting on his actions and how he regrets not taking action on things he know he should have.

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    6. He mentions this to give Montag a sense of how hard it will be to go through. Almost like a warning sign.

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    7. He is regretting the fact that he didn't do anything when the corruption started and it still took Montag to spark action instead of thoughts.

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    8. He is scared of the government. I think he feels a nervousness of being caught and/or being discriminated against.

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  4. would you put the hearing device thing in your ear? why or why not?

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    1. I would if I were Montag because he has no other options or choices at this point.

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    2. I would put the hearing device in my ear. I would trust Faber and I would want the hearing device so I wouldn't feel so alone. I know that Montag was really scared, and I would have been too. He was looking for something to help him and the device seemed like it would, so that's what he did. I definitely would want that same sense of security for myself.

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    3. Adding to what Zach said, Montag wants to understand books and change the way their society acts, so that is his only option.

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    4. I agree with Zach, it would be worth it to try and change the course of your life.

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    5. He doesn't know what to do, and he needs Faber's help. So, he really needs that voice in his ear, almsot working like a conscious, telling him what to do. Montag doesn't know enough to rely on his own judgment yet.

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    6. I would definitely use the earpiece if I knew I could trust Faber. Also, if I needed to use the earpiece for the benefit of society, I would still put the earpiece in. If I couldn't trust Faber, then I don't know how I would react.

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    7. Faber is different, why would he want to hurt Montag if he might try to do the same thing that Faber wanted to hae the courage to do.

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    8. Being Montag, I would not be very learned. Beatty has obviously read enough to be learned, to an extent. Faber is an educated man, more so than Beatty. I would put the device in my ear because it would increase my ability to comprehend and respond (through Faber).

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  6. On page 80, Montag says to Faber, "My wife doesn't think books are 'real.'" What does Mildred mean by this, how are books not 'real'?

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    1. Mildred means that the books are fiction. She doesn't realize that the books have information in them, so they are meaningless to her.

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    2. Mildred means that books are filled with things that are not real, she thinks that books are meaningless and have no substance or value. She is too connected to her 'family' to comprehend that a book could have substance or meaning

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    3. I think she means that they aren't real because the people and stories aren't actually real. They are made up characters and so technically they aren't real.

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    4. It means that the books don't mean anything; they are of no value because they have no factual information. They are just worthless.

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    5. Mildred only knows that because the books are fiction, the didn't actually happen. What she doesn't know is that the books can teach her even though they're not real.

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    6. Mildred can only conect with tangible things, things that she can see or touch, like her family, not things that have to be thought about in depth.

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    7. I think that she thinks the books are fiction and do not relate to real life and their lifestyles. Mildred doesn't want to believe what's in the books because she lives in an ignorant world, and if that gets disrupted by these books, than she won't know what to do with herself.

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    8. Like how Beatty said before: everyone thinks that since books are fiction, they aren't worth reading, because it isn't worth getting caught in a fantasy then realizing it isn't real. Maybe people are afraid of being disappointed?

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    9. In the society in that time, people like Mildred have become so engrossed and obsessed with television that it has become their reality. It has been inverted. Right now we don't think that television is "real" and Mildred didn't believe that books were "real".

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    10. I think she means that they aren't relevant, and they don't respond/talk to the reader. Possibly this could be another effect of the parlor.

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  7. Do you think, as Faber suggested, that Beatty might be one of the people who still reads and values books? If so, do you think that his talk with Montag was in an attempt to get Montag to read the books he had stolen?

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    1. I don't think he still values books. He sounded genuinely concerned and serious, and he think he was just trying to warn Montag before getting in too deep. He values Montag as a friend and an employee, so he doesn't want him to get in trouble. He sounds like he definitely believes that books are no longer of any value, and he's trying to explain this to Montag.

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    2. I definitely think that. Beatty seems smart enough to work with reverse cycology like that. He is working against society by pretending he's working for it.

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    3. Ooh! We have an argument here!

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  8. Why do you think the women care so little about their husbands? Is this just the way society works?

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    1. I feel like they aren't married for love, they are married for the benefits that come from having a husband. The are married just because they need someone to take care of them.

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    2. The women care so little about their husbands because they have so little of a relationship with them. They marry to marry, not because of who their husband is. Society has brainwashed them to only care about the parlors, so they do.

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    3. They never spend quality time with their husbands. This is a trend in society. Nobody cares for anybody else. They only care about parlor walls and TV. No person really emoionally connects with anyone. Everyone is so shallow.

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    4. No one even knows what love is anymore so I think they think they care about him, but they really don't.

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    5. In the society, no one really values relationships anymore. For example, Mildred thinks of the television characters as her family. It's not just women that don't care, it's the husbands too. We can't see this with Montag since he has already proven to be more caring, curious, and thoughtful than other civilians. However, we haven't seen the relationships between other couples because the novel follows Montag, so the readers aren't specifically informed of how much other people care about their spouses. But like any relationship, it probably varies slightly depending on the people. Overall, Mildred's character implies that relationships are less significant.

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    6. In this society, it seems as though the men work and the women stay home and watch TV. This could cause them to be plagued into carelessness.

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  9. On page 69 (of the white book), Montag talks of a snake that was dead, but it was alive. It could see but it couldn't see. What do you think Montag was trying to explain? What is the symbolism of the snake?

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    1. i think that Montag means that it can see but it can't process what it is seeing.

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    2. Also, its like the society, they learn, but they learn useless information.

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    3. He was trying to say that technology can replace things that used to exist, this example is how mechanical snakes are alive because they can move but dead because they aren't real. The symbolism is that technology is taking over and this is an example in the medical field.

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    4. He was talking about the hose that the technicians used to pump Mildred's stomach. With the camera, it can see. By the hose itself isn't seeing, the person using it is. Through its capability of movement, it is alive, but without a technician it can't do anything, so it is dead. This is like their society - the see, but they don't comprehend what they are seeing. They are alive, but nothing drives them.

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    5. I think he was saying how technology is an inefficient replacement for people. Technology couldn't learn and change without a human changing it. But if the technology is smarter than the human, they come to a standstill.

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  10. When do you think the Bible was eradicated from society? Do you think that the loss of the Bible symbolizes and signifies the fall of religion from society?

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    1. I think that the Bible would be one of the first books to go. the loss of the Bible signifies that they don't care about religion.

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    2. I think the loss of the Bible showed that people's interests became hedonistic in all aspects of life. That includes food, religion, and learning.

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    3. The Bible was eradicated from society like all of the other books, but this example was used to show and explain how much the image of God was different in their society.

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    4. I think it is no longer a part of their society because people don't believe in it and see it is fiction and therefore worthless. Like they say in the novel, books cause a lot o conflict and problems. The Bible has definitely caused a lot of conflict, so this is why it was such an important book to destroy. Religion it's really a part of their lives, therefore it didn't matter.

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    5. Religion separates people. Naturally, if you got rid of change of religion, it would lessen the amount of separation and eventually make people more equal. I think that the society eradicated the Bible to make the people more equal and have less disagreement.

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    6. Religion, I think, is too motivational for sociaty to handle, religion makes people want to think about things and be better people. Religion is also all about love and life, and no one can handle those things

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  11. Page 74 says: "Maybe the books can get us half out of the cave." What does this mean? What is the 'cave'? How can the books help?

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    1. I think the cave signifies the lack of knowledge that they have. The books can help by teaching people things that others don't know.

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    2. The cave is the ignorant society that they all live in. And books can educate the people and bring them out of their ignorance.

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    3. The cave is the society they are in. Books can help them to get out, and fix it. However, they need more than books to get all the way out.

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    4. Caves are usually dark, like pitch black. So, this society lives in "The cave" or the dark, because they can't see anything, they have no sense of what is around them, like in the dark, you don't know what's around you. Books however show how other people think, which gives them more of a sense of what's around them, and leads them out of "the cave"

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    5. The cave is their society and how it works. The books have the information to help change the society.

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    6. I think the 'cave' symbolizes the situation that the society is in. The books could help by making society care again. To make society think again. If everyone starts reading and understanding, then maybe they will see that they need to change their society and, as Montag says, not make the same mistakes again.

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  12. What is Montag asking of Faber when he asks Faber to "teach him"?

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    1. Montag is asking Faber to teach him to understand the substance of books and how to process the information.

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    2. Faber is well read. So, Montag wants to know what Faber knows. Montag wants to be able to think as deeply as Faber does. Faber isn't willing to act, but Montag is.

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    3. Teach him how to think and enjoy life, to look at life thought eyes that see more then they are told to see.

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    4. Montag wants to know how to really learn because he has never had the chance too.

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  13. In connection to my question above about the Bible falling from society, along with religion, what affects do you think this has had and will have on society?

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    1. I think that the people are so fixed in on the TV and other entertainment it might not have any effect. What they need to do is either shut off the TV's or put the bible into what is shown on the TV somehow.

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    2. Many of the laws of or day have ties with religion. For example, killing others is morally wrong in religion. Without that tie to religion, people have no fear of killing people. There is no sense of right and wrong.

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  14. On page 86 Faber says, "we still insisted on finding the highest cliffs to jump off." What does this symbolize? What is the 'cliff'.

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    1. The cliff is the symbol of how their society is in free fall from a very high point, so they still have a long way to fall but they doomed themselves.

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    2. I think Bradbury was alluding to the theme of humanities' "inherently sinful nature". I think that the cliffs stand for mistakes and errors humans make.

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    3. People take the biggest risks possible - whether it's driving extremely fast or swallowing a ton of pills, we are practically asking to die.

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  15. Why do you think Guy ripped up the Bible?

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    1. To convince Faber to help him and to give him incentive.

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    2. Since it was the last Bible, Faber was panicked, so he reluctantly chose to cooperate with Guy

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    3. I agree with Zach. Faber needed reason to act, and seeing Montag rip up such a valuable book made Faber see what needed to be done.

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    4. Because it drove Faber crazy, it was basically mental torture to convince Faber to join him.

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  16. Why do you think Faber is so unwilling to act? What is the difference between Faber and Montag that causes Montag to be ready to act while Faber would rather sit idly by?

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    1. Montag actually saw the effects that the lack of books has on society. He helped burn a woman and her books, and it made Montag see that he needed to act. Faber was never a fireman and he only saw what punishment he would have if he did anything. Faber is too afraid, while Montag is too set on learning to look back.

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    2. Faber is unwilling to act because he doesn't want to be burnt, he says that on page 81.

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    3. Faber is kind of scared, he's someone who works behind the scene. Someone who acts is to an actor, while Faber is to someone who does the stage craft.

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    4. Faber is older, and was used to the way society was. I think that all of the change has, in a way, scared Faber. He hasn't fully adjusted, and doesn't know how to change things.

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    5. It mentions in the book that Faber calls himself a coward. I think Faber is afraid, but he doesn't want to be.

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    6. I think Faber is so unwilling to act because he is old and doesn't want to get burned or to stand out. If he gets attention from the government, they will probably find out that he knows too much information, which is why he probably never leaves his apartment. Montag doesn't know what can happen if you act, while Faber knows what can happen since he has witnessed it. He's too old to want to rebel and Montag wants to do it anyway.

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    7. Faber is old and afraid, as he often said how cowardly he is. I think Faber's age has given him more of a sense of how the society works and how hopeless it all is. On page 84, he says to Montag, "Why waste your final hours racing about your cage denying you're a squirrel?" Years of this life has caused him to have a harsher sense of reality. Montag's plan probably seemed ridiculous and overwhelming. On the other hand, Montag, seems more free spirited and open to wishing and hoping in comparison. He is also probably excited for his idea and plan about the books, whereas Faber has probably speculated creating change before, and eventually concluded that it would be too risky.

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  17. The Bible has really complex words and English in it. Do you think people will be able to interpret, understand and study the Bible?

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    1. No, and even if they do I think that the ideas and storys will be skewed.

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    2. In this time, only the intellectual could understand. To all others it would be to confusing.

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    3. They'd have to start slowly. Montag had to start really slowly, reading passages over and over in order to even feel like he was learning anything. It would take time. Everything does.

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    4. I doubt it. I think people would find it obscene and useless, considering that's how they feel about fiction (and even non-fiction) novels. They would probably dismiss it without a second thought, so I don't think they would understand or study it.

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    5. No, that is why Montag wants Faber to teach him how to learn and comprehend what he is reading.

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    6. I don't think people will even WANT to read the Bible. Even if they did, the education they have been given has prevented them from developing any critical thinking skills, much less a vocabulary.

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    7. Adding on to Hunter's, people don't want to read, learn, or think for themselves. They would rather watch television, go with the flow of everyone's ideas, the overall consensus.

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  18. In the book, "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley, the idea of "family" (ex: marriage, children, mother/father) is considered obscene or even pornographic. Do you think that this idea would benefit the society in Fahrenheit 451? In other words, their relationships are clearly unemotional, so do you think getting rid of marriage and family would be helpful? Would becoming more independent worsen or benefit this society? Why/why not?

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    1. I think it would have a negative effect on society. They would withdraw even further from others around them, and form less and less relationships.

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    2. Becoming more independent might worsen the society - people are already extremely self-centered. Living on their own might only increase this.

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    3. Family is a very important thing. To do away with that would only worsen the society. Even if there is no emotion in the family, at least there is one.

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    4. I don't think it would make a difference because they don't care about each other and they wouldn't be affected if they didn't have friends or family.

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    5. I don't know about benefitial, but it might be easier. Althought because the whole reason of doing most of the stuff that they do in that sociaty is to look normal, to act like everything is okay, so I doubt that they would stop marrying because marrying is what is normal.

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    6. I don't think it would really make a change, good or bad (though I guess it depends on the interpretation of "good" and "bad", and whom it would benefit or hurt). People would probably feel more comfortable without having to deal with their spouses and children; they would have the television to themselves. They're already rather independent, so being alone should be fine for them.

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  19. What do you think of Faber's "List of Three"(quality of information, leisure to digest that information, and the right to carry out actions based on what is learned by the first two)? How do you think missing these three things affects the society?

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    1. They don't have any of the three, and the result is society as we see it in the book currently.

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    2. The lack of these three things in society has made people less thoughtful and more of the follower type than the leader type. People no longer think for themselves or perform actions based on their own thoughts.

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    3. Missing these three things makes this society completely open to government control. They are taking away the information when they burn books, they are eliminating threats that were carrying out actions like Clarisse, and they have to leisure time to digest anything even if they ever got information.

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    4. Missing the third is the biggest detriment. If anyone has every seen the poster in Mrs. Crosby's room, it says "what good is this," in a thought bubble and is followed by "without this." in a speech bubble. Knowledge is power, but if you can't use that power it doesn't matter.

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    5. The lack of good information causes people to watch TV. The easy information and the TV makes it easy for people to swallow propaganda. Those twwo problems allow people to get away with being lazy and not hep society.

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    6. People don't think for themselves, they are just lazy and go with what they are told or what everyone else says. Without reading, they aren't inspired to do anything or stand out.

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  20. Do you think that if Faber and Guy manage to get books into the firemen will they try to get the firemen on Faber's side or turn the firemen against themselves?

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    1. The ideal would be to get everyone on Faber's side. But, if that doesn't work out, turning them against themselves would probably be plan B.

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    2. I think they will try to get the firemen to turn against themselves.

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    3. People will begin to attack the firemen, because of this, the firemen need to take sides with Faber. Otherwise, they seem contradictory and weak.

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    4. I think that they will try to get everyone on Faber's side because they need the people to back them up.

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    5. I agree with Emily. If they don't have enough people to back them up, how will they get anywhere in society? If the firemen don't back Montag up, I think Faber and Guy will want to turn the firemen against themselves.

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  21. Do you think that Faber's plan (adopted by Montag) to eliminate the firemen will work? If it does, do you think it will solve the problems their society faces?

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    1. I'm not sure if it will work or not, but I don't think it is enough to solve the problems they face.

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    2. It will certainly cause a stir from the people. What will they do? What will happen to the books? This could definately cause social change.

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    3. I don't think it will solve all of their problems. Nothing is that easy. People are so brain-washed that they will try to fight back. It might cause more problems, but it can't get much worse, can it?

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    4. I'm not sure if sowing suspicion in the societies is the right way to go. It might work, but people also need to be educated in the importance of learning and thinking in order to change and solve the society's problems. Otherwise, people won't really think much about the burning of houses, even if they are firemen's houses. Like Faber says, most people stopped reading even without the firemen.

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    5. I don't think that this plan will solve all of the problems going on. This is just one fire department out of a ton. This plan could help their city, but what about others? Are they going to go around the country to get rid of fire departments? Probably not going to happen. They need to make the people more aware of the ignorant world that they are living in and I don't know if this plan will cause a stir.

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  22. Do you think the rest of the world carries the same society as the United States? Or do you think that their societies are similar to those of today?

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    1. I think some of the countries do. But the third world countrys now would not be rich enough to afford all of the medicines or pills, tech, and indulgences that the U.S. can.

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    2. We don't really know because the information is kept from the people, but I would assume they are. It would be like the U.S. turning into North Korea and the people being so isolated and disconnected from the rest of the world. North Korea's government has cut off all communication and information to their people so they only know what the government tells them, this is what this society is like.

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  23. Montag talks about how there are bombers and nuclear wars that have been going on - and information has been kept from the rest of society. "...the world works hard while we play." Do you think this will happen in our future? What do you think the situation in other countries is like?

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    1. We are in lots of debt, we are no longer the smartest, richest, etc. I don't see this anytime soon, but it is definitely a possibility if we take the correct steps to reach this.

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    2. You can see that happening a little bit. It used to be that when America was at war, everyone had to give something. More recently, Americans have had more mixed feeling about wars and if they don't support it then they don't want to be a part of it at all. In our recent connections with Afghanistan and other places over there, many Americans don't even know what is going on. Few Americans have to give up anything.

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  24. Montag wants Faber's help, Faber is paranoid about being caught. Will Faber help him? If so how much?

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    1. I think once Faber and Montag start their plan, Faber will relax a little.

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    2. Faber will help Montag, I think that he will help him a lot because he is educated and experienced.

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    3. I think Faber will do the best he can. He wants society to change, so he'll at least make an effort. He might not be able to help as much as Montag wants, but at least it will be something.

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    4. I think Faber will help Montag. I think Faber is too afraid to do it himself, so having Montag do it would be ideal. Faber will help Montag as much as possible because he is the one will all of the experience and knowledge.

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    5. Faber really wants change to happen. He's just afraid of dying, because if he dies, there's one less intellectual person left in their society. I think he will still help Montag, just maybe in the sidelines or in the background.

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    6. I think that Faber will suply some of the acidenic support, but I do think that he is to afraid to acually take physical action. He will suport Montag, but I don't think he will be one to acully go out and help.

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  25. How will the earpiece change what'll be going on in the story? Do you think Faber is still suspicious of Guy and this is a way of keeping an eye on him?

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    1. Interesting question. I don't think Faber is suspicious of Montag very much. Faber is slightly paranoid about everybody, that's true, but he trusts Montag about as much as possible for him. Montag has proved that he wants to learn and wants to make some sort of change.

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    2. I think that the earpiece will change the story a lot because Guy is now able to have all of Faber's knowledge as well as his own, which will change the way events go. I think Faber could also be keeping an eye on Montag but he is slowly going to trust him.

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    3. Yes that is one reason, but also to help Montag rebel.

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    4. i think Faber is still slightly suspicious pf Guy but for the most part he trusts hi. i feel like the earpiece is a game changer in that Faber and Montag can keep in touch and respond quickly to what happens.

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  26. How can this section of this book be a motivator for social change?

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    1. This section shows how if the government gets too much power, they could completely cut of the information flow to the people and how that would make it almost impossible to overthrown them.

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    2. I think it shows that even in the worst of societies, there are people that want it to change. If you disagree with your society/government, you should get up and do something about it, even if you're alone.

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    3. It shows the reader to keep up freedom of press, speech, etc. One motivational detail is the effort and stress of trying to reverse the system. It is very hard.

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    4. This section really shows how individuals should stand up for themselves, have their own thoughts. Montag's and Faber's plan is the inspiring attempt at changing a world that appears so far gone. Bradbury probably believes this is an example of what people should do- as opposed to being lazy and just going with what the government and people say.
      Despite the hopelessness of a situation, people should still be themselves, or they will get lost in the mainstream, leading to a society like that in Fahrenheit 451.

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  27. "The whole culture's shot through. The skeleton needs reshaping... The public itself stopped reading of it's own accord... So few want to be rebels anymore. And out of those few, most, like myself, scare easily. Can you dance faster than the White Clown, shout louder than 'Mr. Gimmick' and the parlor 'families'? If you can, you'll win your way, Montag."
    -Pg. 83 (Unique edition)
    What does this quote by Faber show about society in this book? Why do you think that?

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    1. He thinks that something incredible would have to be done in order to help this society. Nobody else thinks there is a need for change, so it would be really difficult to fix that. Faber is skeptical that anything can be done.

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    2. I think that Faber is telling Montag that people might not listen, because they're so focused on the White Clown, the parlor "families", etc. He's saying that Montag needs to find some way to get people's attention, when the only thing they are excited about these days are the TV shows.

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    3. This quote shows that people became lazy and extremely reliant technology for their own selfish desires.

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    4. I think Faber is saying that it is really tough to start a rebellion in this society. So few want to rebel, that Montag would have trouble getting people to want to rebel with him. I think that Faber is either trying to discourage Montag from rebelling, or he is hinting that he can help Montag try to rebel.

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    5. People are very side-tracked! They don't seem to care about who says what. They think that they are "happy" and are content with that

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  28. What does Montag do with all the books he doesn't turn in to Beatty?

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    1. He keeps them or takes them to Faber...(I think)

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  29. When we have talked about censorship in class, we said that things are censored to protect people. The censorship in this society is clearly not to protect people. Why is the government censoring everthing?

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    1. To keep the public ignorant. The more ignorant that the public is, the less chance they have and less ability they have to overpower the government.

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    2. To keep people from becoming "unhappy" and to keep society stable. They think that this is the only way to keep everything in line, so that's what they do. They're trying so hard to keep the system together (though clearly it is falling apart.)

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    3. I bet it was done at first to protect people, but it's also to keep everyone happy. Almost any book can upset somebody in some way. The government is trying to end that by taking away those things that can be offensive, namely everything.

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    4. The censorship in this society IS to protect the people. The people want to be protected from decisions and from the unhappiness they might get from a book that doesn't say what they want it to. The government is protecting the people as they want to be protected

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    5. I think they are censoring society as a whole. They want to protect society from the past because they want every person to be 'happy' and have that perfect society.

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    6. The government is censoring things because 1. they don't want people to be offended, and they don't want riots and protests breaking out and possibly threaten their position of power, and 2. they don't want people to know some things, like how the rest of the world is starving while everyone in the society of Fahrenheit 451 is well fed. The rest of the world works hard while they party. Also, everyone wants to be happy, and this is the government's way of keeping them "happy".

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    7. I think the government is using the "protection" theory to justify why the gov't is controlling everything. I think the government's controlling things in order to keep the power back in the government. I think that at one point a dictator took over and used protection to justify taking control of the information that is fed to the public.

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  30. The book mentions two atomic wars since 1990. Could these wars have caused this decline in society? What might have caused these wars in the first place? Is our society headed down this path?

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    1. I think the wars definitely could have caused this decline in society. People change things when bad things happen.

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    2. I think that the U.S. does a great job at recognizing what the people think, and most people agree that information should generally NOT be censored.

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    3. Society always acts in different ways when a war is going on. These two atomic wars probably caused people to think that censorship was necessary. It was definitely part of the decline of the society.

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    4. Yes they could have, because during a time of war the government gets more power, and if we are always at war the government has power to censor speech and by that censor books too.

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    5. Well, the time period is unclear, but two atomic wars since 1990 is possible. Hiroshima happened 50 years before 1990. I wouldn't be surprised that other countries built A-Bombs and started wars with them.

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    6. I think the wars were a huge cause for the decline in society. Some of the things that might have caused the wars could have been terrorism, hunger, pride, greed, or defense. I think our society is headed down this path. We need to make a change for the better.

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    7. I think that these wars most likely caused the changes in society. So many things could have caused the wars like big events such as terrorist attacks, or small events such as a Moral disagreements. I feel like that we could be headed down this path if we aren't careful and that we need to be aware where we stand in the world, or else things could go horribly wrong.

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  31. Do you think there might be pockets of resistance? Maybe there is a group of people that gets together and reads? Maybe there are people writing/printing books?

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    1. There probably are, but we just don't know about them or we haven't heard about them yet.

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    2. I very highly doubt this. It seems unlikely..

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    3. There's always the possibility that the people who were taken away weren't actually killed. They could be an asylum where there's a lot of people who have read books. But I kind of doubt that.

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    4. I think there might be. They're just hiding under the surface, like Faber, waiting for the right chance to act. They might also be preserving books for future purposes.

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  32. On page 86, Faber says "Do you're own bit of saveing, and if you drown, at least die knowing you were headed to shore." What do you think he ment by this and how will it impact Montag

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    1. It's better to be trying to fix things than just being a bystander. This motivates Montag even more.

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    2. He's saying that even if Montag doesn't fix the society, he can die knowing that not only did he try but he was on the way to success.

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    3. I think that Faber is telling Montag to try to change the society, even if he thinks/knows he will fail.

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    4. It means that even if you die, at least you've started something. At least you've done something worthwhile, even if you didn't get too finish it. It's better to at least try than to watch society deteriorate.

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  33. Do you think their society is still getting worse? Or has it flat-lined at its current state?

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    1. It is getting worse because more and more books are being burned every day and the information is being taken away until it is all gone.

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    2. I think it could get worse. It could be so bad that nobody thinks of change. At least in this society, Montag and Faber and possibly Beatty are trying to fix things in the society. It could be so bad that nobody does this, but it's not that bad. Yet...

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    3. Well I think that a book like this would be about the time of change. There has to be a plot, I mean we're readers, we can understand these things. Like in cartoons, even though the producers try to make it seem like a main character is in danger. He's not going to die. He's a main character.

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    4. I agree with Zach in part: the fact that books are disappearing is bad but the social norm has flat-lined.

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    5. Over time might all the people who remember the old ways be gone and chance of change gone with them?

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    6. I still think that it's getting worse. Not all the books have been burned and there is still educated people out there. A prime example in this book is Montag, hes not educated and hes causing a ruckus.

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  34. What do you think happens to the people that get taken away? Are they killed? Placed in prison? Placed in some kind of asylum?

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