Do you think Beatty will be on Montag and Faber's side?
I don't think he will, because Beatty doesn't seem like someone who would be open minded enough to do that, and rebel against the government. He likes burning books too much.
Beatty perhaps once had the pontential and the open mind to help Faber and Montag, however, he has dedicated his belief to the government's lies, and therefore committed himself to that side of the conflict.
Jacob,I don't think he will. It is Beatty's job to uphold the law that books are illegal to have and to read. I believe that Beatty will put his job before the way he thinks.
I believe that Beatty will never agree with Faber and the old ways of our society. He clearly believes that personal happiness over rides thought and decision making.
I agree, I think that he will try to convince them that their ideas are false because of how he talked to Montag. Beatty used persuasion to try to put down the idea of rebellion that Montag has.
Jacob,I don't think that Beatty will be on Faber and Montags side, because they don't have the same attitude and outlook.
But the author was foreshadowing that Faber and Montag were going to talk to Beatty and see if he was.
Why do you think that Mildred can't understand what these books mean to Guy?
Bennet,I think that Mildred did not understand because all her life she was not required to think, so how could she start now? I think it is similar to the saying, "You can't teach an old dog knew ways." Once something such as not thinking becomes habit, its hard to begin again.
I think that since the overall society's views on literature is that it is pointless and forbidden, Mildred got the idea that there was no point in reading or listening to it. Both the government and Beatty planted the idea that literature is a made up concept in her head, leading her to think that. This is a society where not everyone can think for themselves...Their thoughts are controlled by outside forces and other peoples views.
She is too wrapped up in her "family" in the parlor. The TV has basically devoured any sort of thoughts she might have. It's influenced her to a point that she can't really analyze things.
Bennet-She doesn't understand because she doesn't see books constantly like Guy does. Also Guy burns the books so maybe he could me more curious.
I think that Mildred is afraid of change. She wants everything to stay the same in her life because she believes that she is 'content.'
Bennet,She can understand she just doesn't want to. I believe that if she starts understanding that her life would change and she thinks her life is perfect right now. She has very little if any responsibilities and all she does is obsess about TV all day.
I don't think she can understand. She is the 'brainwashed' part of society, she can only understand the parlor side of the world. She even said, "books aren't even real!"
I agree Sarah she believes she is in a happy world and honestly to her she probably is happy even if we all know the happiness is fake.
Jacob, Mildred can not understand why Montag reads the books because she is so simple minded that her life basically revolves around the tv so she doesn't understand why he reads these books when he could just watch tv.
Yes I agree Sophie and also she doesn't want change because she is happy in her little world.
It was frustrating that Faber knew and was completely aware that he was a coward, but yet he would not change that about himself.
Aly,Maybe Faber felt that if was as bold as Montag, he would be caught by the government and his collection of books would be destroyed.
I agree with you but also he did something that could help him do more with out having to go out, so in a way he was still helping.
I feel that Faber has made this ear piece device so that when a guy like Montag comes along it will come in use. He kept saying that the war could help them create change.
I agree Alex.
I found that really frustrating as well, but if I was in this situation I think I would be like Faber too. I would be scared to try anything, I think that Faber is not as bold as Montag and he isn't willing to change a thing.
Aly,I think that there is something we don't know about Faber. I believe that we are going to find out later in the book about something that made him very afraid to stand up. I think we are going to find out about a moment in his life that made him this coward.
I felt that Faber was trying to decide to help. He kept saying no I will not help, but this will help, this is great. I feel that he will help, but eventually fall apart from the pressure.
I would not say he was a coward, but instead smart. Faber understands the severity of this issue. He realizes that society and the government are no longer wanting intellectuals in the world, and would rather be happy than actually have self thought. What can an old man and a Fireman really do?
In the book, the government gives false and biased numbers and facts about the war. Does this distortion of a wars image happen in news media today.
It happens more in a country like North Korea. In the U.S. I would think our military numbers are pretty accurate.
I think in a way it happens. Photographers are censored about taking certain pictures by the government, open to punishment. So yes I believe that it does happen.
Alexandra, they take photos of Americans suffering and dying so I think it is accurate.
I think it happens today because media only tends to give the populations what they want they want to hear. So it can have the same result as the government giving false numbers abut the war, because the media might only tell part of the numbers. It seems like it would happen a little bit less in the US with freedom of press, but it still happens.
Ethan, this for sure happens in war today because if the government showed/told us everything that happened in war then no one would ever volunteer to go to war.
Nicole makes a good point that it is easier to say you'll stand up for something and actually doing it. Where do you see this in today's society?
Today, I find it in bullying. People say they'll be kind to one another and not bully. Instead, there is such a problem with kids putting others down and bullying others.
A political campaigner will say many things to gain the power of a political position, but once they have that power to lose, they sometimes fail to keep their promises.
I completely agree with you molly.
You say you will clean your room, but do you? It is easier to say you will do something to either change the focus of a topic, or sway the ideas of others. Like Ethan said, campaigners will say they will do things to get people to follow them and have faith in their ideas, and once they have everyone on their side, they might not keep their word. They already have control.
good point molly that is a great example.
To further expand on Ethan, you can actually see it in our foreign affairs. We pledge to stop mass murder, and stop inhuman rulers in other countries. However, we usually wont go fight a country unless it has a strategic point in our national security system. For example, we will never enter Syria because it does not contain enough oil, and if the rebels take over the country, their is more of a chance it will become a hot bed for terrorists.
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Why did Faber call Montag a "Hopeless Romantic"?
Allie,I think that Faber noticed that Montag is not like anyone else. I am not sure why he is called a hopeless romantic but I think that he means that Montag is trying to find love and happiness in a world where it cannot be found.
Allie, I think he calls him a hopeless romantic because a "romantic" doesnt have to be someone in love it's sometimes about being so hopelessly in love with a topic that you do everything you can to make it happen.
We still do not know the time period?
Mollie,I think that Ray Bradbury set this book in this time period because he felt that the way events were turning out when he wrote this, he thought that the world would have had multiple nuclear conflicts.
Because when this book was written there was this illusion that we would have flying cars by now, and that everything would be so advanced with technology. Also this was post WWII, so for Bradbury the war was a easy thing to write about.
Mollie On page 69, it is only the title page for part two " The Sieve and the Sand."
Mollie,While Bradbury was making the book, 2012 seemed a long ways away. After seeing the effect of the power of the atomic bomb in World War I that in the future all countries would want to just use that power all the time. Its crazy to think that Bradbury predicted nuclear wars to occur right now. I wonder if in reality life is not that far off from nuclear wars.
My comment got deleted-On pg. 69, Montag says, "We've started and won two atomic wars since 2022!" We finally discover the time period this book took place in! Why do you think Bradbury placed this book in that time period?
Mollie, I think that he mentioned they had two atomic wars since 2022 in order to make us think about the many similarities between our society and the society in the book.
Perhaps Faber doesn't feel that he will make a big impact while Montag, who is a fireman, could. Wh is going to listen to an old guy? It is more likely that somebody who has a higher position would be listened to.
Maddison,I believe that Faber just over thinks life. He always thinks about the things that go wrong other than the things he can change or fix. I do believe that Montag will have much more of a impact but that doesn't mean that Faber won't have any
Do you believe that Montag has an actual chance to change the course of the future for this society?
I think yes if he can find enough people to back him up and people that have enough power.
I think that the only way that Montag will change the course of the future is if he gets a big group together and somehow plans a very elaborate way to do it. Other wise he doesn't really stand a chance.
I believe that with the right influence and course of action, Montag does have the ability to change the thoughts of other people, just like Clarisse did to him. He has the ability to sway others thoughts, because the thoughts in this society are based on what people are hearing and being taught to believe true.
In our minds I think we believe he will but in reality it will take a lot more than one man to change the course of society.
David,I believe that Guy does have a chance to change the course of the future because if he can find the right people who have the motivation to change the way their society is, they can either protest the government, of possible revolt to overthrow the current government.
I think that he might be able to start an idea of changing society, but I doubt he could influence people to actually take action to change society.
Do you think that the war is a cause from banning books?
War has always been a part of society, the lack of books just keeps people uninformed.
It could be. Perhaps there are rebel forces that the government is trying to stop.
I'm not sure if the war is from burning books or not. Maybe it is a war to make other countries like theirs-one that books are banned and television is such a big part.
I agree with Ethan. War has always been a reaction throughout different societies and beliefs within the society.
I do not think the war is about the books because isn't that the reason they got rid of books? So everyone was happy.
I would think that in order for people to not have books, it would have to be banned throughout the whole world. With all our technology, books can be accessed through phones or computers. I think if books weren't banned throughout the whole world than I'm sure people could access books somehow.
I mean they have nothing better to do since books are banned, so what else would they do then go crazy and "fight" people
Why do you think that people stopped reading? Was it because of of the technological advance? Do you think that this will happen in today's society?
Alex, I do think that people stopped reading because of the technological advances. I don't think that this will happen in today's society because we are using technology to advance our society not take over it.
I think people stopped reading because people became lazy and started brainwashing others into not reading books. I also think the government had a huge role in banning books. I don't believe this will happen today because we keep advancing in our knowledge and it would be insane to quit reading books. Especially because books CAN change society.
Alex,To add on to Rachel's response, there are many people who love reading. I am one of them, I would rather read than watch TV. If the banning of books, in this novel, is because of the people than I don't think this will happen to us because many people love to read.
I think that people stopped reading because people are easily influenced and swayed by the thoughts and reactions of others. People were told literature is pointless fiction that wasn't allowed, so they believed it. I think it may have been a process, the first people who were told that books are banned could have been against the decision, but other people, who grew up after generations of people agreeing figured it must be true. I also think that the technology and technological advances were almost a distraction. Instead of reading, people had their "families" to keep their time occupied.
I don't think it will happen in our society because we value books. And some of our new technology like Nooks are bringing the books to us on our Nooks.
Alex, I don't think that this will happen in our society because eve though our technology is advancing through books. We have online books, and online magazines, and article. The big question is, How would we ever stop the publishing of 5,000 books a day? This would be a very long process.
Montag and Mildred think someone is at the door. Why doesn’t the door-voice tell them if someone is there? Why is this significant?
Montag had turned off the door-voice. I think it in a way symbolized him turning away from society by turning away from the technology that makes them lazy.
I agree with Aspen, I think that Montag is trying to re-enhance his life.
Do you think that Montag will eventually find happiness or will the government step in and make sure everything stays the same?
Rachel-I think that Guy will find happiness, but the government will step in and take it from him. After that, I think he might try to start some sort of movement in society.
I think Montag will eventually become happy because he will find out what is in books and see that life can be different. I think he will be able to change other peoples' minds about books.
Rachel,I think Montag will eventually find happiness before the government intervenes. I believe that Montag will create an underground group that reads when no one is looking and will eventually stand up to the government.
I think that all of you have really good ideas but for the most part I agree with D.C I think that the government will notice and will step in and ruin Montag's life. Going back to what Bennet and Mollie said I think that he will influence others. So could this eventually outbreak a war?
I don't think that Montag will find happiness because the government probably still has good enough tabs on people and books and literature that he will be imprisoned or killed by the time happiness is even attainable for him
Aspen,I think that he will find happiness for some time, but I agree that the government will step in.
If Guy Montag was to gather a group of people who want books in the society, who would those people be?
Bennet,At first I think that it would be only a small group, and then that will cause a social change that will cause other people to want to join.
I think they would be those people out there that think diferently like Clarisse and the Fabers out there that remember how times used to be and eventually open some people's eyes to how things could be.
I believe that he would try to get the other firemen to join it because that would give them power on there side.
Why do you think their technology is continuing to advance even though all of the people are becoming less intelligent and not coming up with thoughts or ideas of their own?
Sarah,I think this reason is because the people in charge, the government, are able to think clearly. That's how they decide to go to war, and that's how they have started and won two atomic wars.
That's a really good question. Maybe that's what they learn in school.
Sarah-I think it is because certain advances in technology are leading to others, and after all, don't they need people to work the machines that run? Those people are probably the people who are making technological advances.
Here are two articles that speak to Ethan's points: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/6868/ and http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577181351486558984.html
On page 85, Faber was telling Montag the down fall of news papers and the halt of news for the people and how this resulted in the government asking firemen to start fires. Do you think the government was more threatened by books, or the newspapers?
Aly,I can assume that these things came with the of freedom of the media. In this new government I think that at some time the government was threatened and then they changed or abolished most of the laws.
I believe the government was more threatened by the newspapers.
I think they were threatened by the idea or concepts in books but they were also scared of the facts in newspapers from reaching the public.
Ally, I think that books and newspapers are the same. Both books and newspaper take effort to read and understand. Newspapers are dying out now because we are all going digital. We as a people prefer not to work to receive information but instead just sit down and have information fed to us.
What type of Government system is in place during the story?
I think it's communism.
David,The book never says what type of government is in place, just that there is a government and some of the rules it has established.
David-I think this government is dictatorship or a communism because the government seems to have so much power.
How many people are there out there in the book like Faber? People who want change? How many people are there out though like Montag who really are planning to create change? Because I feel that there is a difference between Montag and Faber.
Jacob,I definitely agree. I think that there are many people just like Montag, who want to take action but don't know how to, or Faber who can think and analyze life but are to timid to do it. The only problem is the people like this have no way of communicating to each other in order for their thoughts and actions to impact more then just the people in their communities.
Jacob, I think there is probably a large group of people hidden and waiting for a leader, kind of like Faber. I think that Montag may be the leader they had been waiting for, because he feels so strongly about his thoughts that he can't just sit back, hiding and waiting.
Faber is an older person so the number of people like him are dwindling and the numbers that are like Montag are just too in fear to do anything about it.
I agree Sarah and Aly.
I don't think Montag is in fear as he said "thats the good part of dying; when you've nothing to lose you will run any risk you want." I believe that if Montag knew how to change the world, he would. Now he knows how to start to do it.
How come we think a lot deeper in books and want to read them more when they are no longer here?
The old saying you never know what you have until its gone.
People never recognize and appreciate something until they realize the difference it makes. Most often, people realize this in the absence of whatever it is, books in this case.
I think that it is just because that is how it has always been in the human race and the quote that Jacob said was derived from that.
Why is it sometimes better to think about unabridged, original content when you can have it in a condensed format?
I think that it is better to think about the original content because sometimes, important things are left out of the condensed content. Also, it can promote higher level thinking.
Do you think Clarisse is still alive and if so do you think she will be a part of the story again?
I think that she is still alive and yes I believe she will come back into the story maybe even in a way un-banning books.
I think by stating that Clarisse was dead, Mildred was almost trying to show Montag what happens when you let your thoughts stray. By giving an example of how people with a mind of their own are "taken care of," she was trying to persuade Guy not to think like that, so he wouldn't have a similar fate.
Clarisse is dead but I think the idea of her her will drive Montag to continute towards his goal to change society.
I agree Alex and Haleigh do you think she is dead?
Jacob, sadly I do think that she is dead, but I think that who she was will be a symbol throughout the book.
I agree Rachel that if she is dead that she will be a martyr for change.
I think it's hard to tell if Clarisse is dead but I don't think she will come back. In all honesty I don't think there is a purpose for her. The purpose of her character was to make Montag realize what he was missing by living without emotion.
Why do you think that the author chose to write in a futuristic era? How does it affect the story?
I believe he wrote it to warn us against what could become of the future, and because setting it in the future gave him more creative licence.
There is more technology and it takes time for thinks like this to evolve.
D.C,I think the author chose to write this book in a futuristic era because it would possibly freak people out if he wrote this book during the time period in which he wrote it because to me this idea of books being banned shocks me. And it would probably freak out people back then.
David, I think that this affects the story because it forces the reader to think and compare their own actions to those of the characters like Mildred in the story. It makes me think about how our society could possibly progress into the one described in the book.
I think that Bradbury is trying to show us what our future may become, and what we need to do to either avoid or keep on track for our society to become that way.
I agree with Haleigh, the writer is warning us and trying to tell people to "wake up" and see what can happen.
Do you think that education is failing because of the modern technology we have?
I think that education is advancing because we have so much more information now, but it can also hinder education because technology requires less effort to work with, therefore requiring less thought, which is bad for education.
I definitely think some children are becoming more unmotivated because technology is so easy to use and can be used to just tell you the answers. But I do think that technology has it's benefits on education. There are educational applications, dictionaries, and easier ways to do things.
I think we are still being educated, and technology is enhancing our education. Is it just the idea of education and what education is that is changing?
I don't think technology is making education worse. It seems that it is actually enhancing our education. We can now use unlimited amounts of information to increase our learning.
In this book, what do you think happened to all of our old laws?
I think that they are still there but I don't think that they are as enforced as they used to be.
I think that many of them were over ruled or changed by the government because of the changes that were happening in the society.
Dean,I feel that the old laws might not be in place and same with the old government.
Did anyone else catch somewhere near the beginning of the book Clarisse stating that it was okay for people to kill each other? Death was a regular and know concept in people that wouldn't be as likely as today, such as normal healthy children around our age?
I am going to change my question a little to where did our rights go?
Dean,Our rights were taken because the government was too powerful and they decided that we didn't matter only power mattered.
There are clearly wars and soldiers in this book. If the society wants to keep people in the dark, what do they do with the soldiers? War clearly changes people and forces them to think, yet they never appear to have an influence on society. Why is this?
Very good point but I think with the medicine they have in this time period they can make sure the war doesn't seem to have an effect on the soldiers.
Jacob,Are you suggesting that we have created a race of humans who serve as soldiers and can kill and destroy without thought or emotion? What affect would this have on the world?
Ethan- I think that the government might either bribe or threaten the soldiers to keep their ideas and knowledge quiet. Also, perhaps they send all of the thinkers to war, hoping that the critical thinkers might die. Of course, it could be the exact opposite. The government might send the unintelligent grunts to war so that war does not have an impact on them. Do you agree?
Both of those are entirely possible solutions.
Yes I believe so because with PTSD you can't control what you do no matter the amount of money a government can give you to keep your mouth shut. They have to use technology and medicine to be able to keep all the these peoples mouth shut.
As a society, do we have the ability to keep up with the technological advances in our everyday life?
Haleigh,As a society, I feel we do have the capability to keep up with technology but the question is do we have the time or will to keep up with technology.
I think that it is possible to keep up with the technological advancements, just as long as new generations keep coming. If the population slows, then it might not be possible.
How many wars have “we started and won since 1990”? What kind of wars were they? What does this tell you about the society portrayed in the book?
Do you think that the banning of the books could have been prevented?
Maybe it could have. Perhaps when the government first started banning books, the people could have rebelled before they became uneducated.
Alex, I don't think that the burning of books could be prevented I think that the governments power could not have been stopped.
Alex,I think the banning of books could have maybe not have happened depending on the coarse of events in the past.
It all started with one person not liking one topic. For example, the book stated that the smokers didn't like the books stating smoking was bad. People like to think they are right, and by literature being filled with varying ideas and beliefs, people were starting disagreements and conflicts. It turned into every little idea becoming a problem.
From my question earlier: Do you think that Montag and Faber will be strong enough impact others to start a war against the government? If they do what will happen?
What if there are others out there like these two? Couldn't the government be keeping it quiet? The government wouldn't tell you that there is an uprising. If there are rebels than nobody would know about them. Maybe Montag and Faber aren't the only ones who know that something is wrong.
Madison, I think you are right. There could be an uprising we don't know about yet.
Emotion and religion play prominent roles in the book. How do they relate to the book?
There must be one overlaying religion for the entire country but it would be very difficult for someone to practice their religion since youre not even allowed to own a copy of your own holy book.
I don't actually believe that religion plays a dominant role in this story. People don't think about religion because it evokes thought about death and moral code.
Do you think that the banning of books was a gradual progress, or was it a fast process?
I think that it was gradual because as technology grew more advanced over the years, less and less people wanted to read books.
As a society, we need a balance in our lives. We need to balance family, love, education, work, technology, hobbies, and time to relax. Do you think if we become too unbalanced, something like Fahrenheit 451 will happen?
Seeking equality is good, actual equality is bad. As long as people continue to seek equality, they will reach enough of an equilibrium to remain stable.Once that equilibrium is actually reached, there is no motivation for change, movement, and improvement.
Yes, maybe not exactly like 451 but something along those lines because too much of one thing can never be good.
I think that there is a possibility, but it will not be as drastic as 451. It would probably lead to a dependence on technology rather than a 451-like situation.
Mollie,I think that that will only happen if we get too attached to all the amazing technology we are creating and forget about the real life relationships. I think that once we loose the relationships, we loose the deep thought that naturally comes with interacting with people. When that happens we will turn to technology and a society like Fahrenheit 451 could be the result.
You also have to remember that Ray Bradbury didn't have computers and phones when this book was written. I don't think that we will end up exactly like the society in 451, because you would have to account for other technological advances that we have today.
Yes, it would be possible, because I think if our lives become extremely unbalanced people will just want everything to stop. They will not want to think about anything, or try to keep their relationships. If they let technology take over their thoughts, then it is a way to become balanced and numb.
What will happen as a consequence of Montag's bad relationship with Mildred?
I think that Mildred might rat Montag out out of fear that the fireman will burn her, her house, and her precious "family" in the parlor.
In the first article Mrs.Smith posted, it states "Over the past few years I’ve had an uncomfortable sense that someone, or something, has been tinkering with my brain, remapping the neural circuitry, reprogramming the memory." Is this happening in the book? And if so, are people realizing it?
Is seeing the movie before or instead of reading the book an example of how the people today are turning to technology instead of personally analyzing by ourselves?